Excerpt from an interview with Lydia Lunch from the upcoming Pranks! 2 book from RE/Search Publications:

V: Lydia, are you sure you haven't done any pranks?

LL: Well, I attended the World Police and Firemen Games in Barcelona: ten thousand cops and fire-fighters competing in Olympic-style events, in sixty different sports disciplines. I went there to do a documentary. Cops love me, because I've been photographing police for years when I'm on tour. I always get them in compromising positions and photograph them.

Jerry Stahl will testify to this‹he's seen me in action. They think I'm so innocent; they see me and think I'm the one they're supposed "to protect and serve." I guess this is kinda my prank, right? I'm sure I must've told you this story where Jerry and I are in a rented car in Florida doing our Spoken Word tour and we get pulled over for‹not speeding, but because we look "too cool," by this big bull.

V: You mean you look suspicious‹-

LL: No, he said, "You guys just look cool, so I pulled you over. What are doing?" I said, "We're in a rented car and we're doing poetry readings," because that's the safe word. I said, "I do readings about power and submission. Why don't you come tonight, Officer?" He's like, "Ha ha ha. Well, I'm working. You weren't speeding; everything's cool ... I was just checking."

He's walking back to his car and I'm like, "Jerry, watch!" He's like, "Oh, you're sick." So I wait 'til the cop's right back to his car, a good five yards away, and then jump out of the car and I'm like, "Excuse me, Officer?" making him walk back to me because it's part of the game. He goes "Oh, yes?" I said, "Do you mind if I take your picture? Because I take pictures of people that help other people." Of course, he's like flexing his arm‹I caught him with bulging muscles.

Anyway, I've been taking pictures of cops on tour for years! So my partner Mark says, "You gotta come to Spain immediately!" I'm like, "Why?" He goes, "For The World Police and Firemen Games. I got us a press pass; we can shoot some documentary footage." I'm all over it. So it's karate, motorcycle racing ... This is the best: the firemen had to run up a 35-step flight of stairs with all their equipment on their back. We're positioned at the top of the stairs, thirty-five flights of stairs up, and they arrive almost puking‹in fact, some of them were puking. I've got photos and video.

I love the police, you see, because they're so easy to fuckin' manipulate. And they love me; they have no clue.

V: What do you mean? How are they're easy for you to manipulate?

LL: Because I'm the one they should be protecting and serving. I went to this event with dual intentions, of course. I went, not only because I love being around the police, but especially if I'm flying on MDMA, which I was when I got my pass on the first day. High as a kite, flirting with the police! We know their reputation‹especially the American police‹is well fuckin' founded, indeed. However, my interest was in the question of "When does the schism turn?"

I always ask cops, "Why did you go into law enforcement?" And it's always, "To help other people." Now when does that turn around? Does it turn around because the entire system of bullyhood in this country (where we can actually go wage a war on another country, for whatever reason we invent) has a trickle-down effect to places like the police force?

Do police become corrupt because they are underpaid, overworked, disrespected, and outnumbered‹they'll never be able to fight all crime. They will always lose in the end. Even if they get x amount of criminals in jail, they are still going to be outnumbered. Are they bullied in into turning corrupt? These are some of the questions I raise. Because I don't think it's as black and white as "the men in black-and-white are going to turn black people black-and-blue." It's not that simple.

V: I know one policeman (an ex-punk rocker), and I couldn't agree more.

LL: So I loved it. I was just in glory talking to all these cops. This was my question: Does a thing like the world police and firemen games, which are a version of the Olympics for police ... does it temper the testosterone inherent in that kind of a job? Like any martial arts or sports discipline, if you have a place to put your aggression and your passion, then you're not frying on high-wire the whole time.

Or, does this "Police Olympics" encourage a super-aggrandizing machismo that turns 'em all into fucking assholes? But it seemed to me that any of the cops involved in these games were so cool. You could tell in their eyes they weren't full of shit, they did want to help people, and there were a lot of women too, which was great.

V: Women cops?

LL: Women cops, women fire-fighters ... I was talking to cops from all over the planet. The thing is, these kinds of sports make them train all year, in disciplines like karate, weight-lifting, bowling (I'll get into a story about the bowlers in just a minute) ... it gave them a place to put their aggression, it gave them discipline, it gave them something to aim toward, and made them not only better officers but better human beings because they had some place to focus that nonsense.

And they were all amazing, and not just "puttin' it on" for me because I'm a cute face. I'm looking into their fucking eyes; I can tell what's going on here. Anyway, we're bouncing around from place to place, so finally it's the last day, and the only thing left is bowling. And we're like, "Who wants to go to the bowling?" We've just been attending karate, weight-lifting ... The bowlers have got to be a bunch of old farts; grandpas polishing their balls.

We go to the bowling alley, and this reminded me of the Simpsons (which I've never seen a full episode of, by the way) ... they're drinking, screaming, yelling. Drinking beer with Redbull, an energy drink, in it. So they're all screaming and hollering and whooping it up and they're all British. I go in there and they're all, like, "Have a drink! She's like Ruby Wax‹look at her!" [Ruby Wax is this American interviewer who's in London; she's kind of an outrageous interviewer...]

So I'm flirting around with them. I'm looking over at one guy, thinking, "What is he wearing?" He had a cop shirt on, and the patch was from the cop on the Simpsons. I don't recognize it because I don't watch the Simpsons, but the people I'm with tell me that's what it is. I'm culturally ignorant about this, so I go over to the Simpsons shirt-wearing officer and I'm like, "What's up with the shirt?" And he's loaded. I'm like, "I'm Lydia Lunch," and he goes, "I'm Pinky!" Six-foot-two, two hundred and fifty pounds.

So I'm talking with Pinky, and people are cracking up, and Pinky goes, "You gotta talk to Greengrass over there. He's the Gold Medal winner for the bowling league." So I'm looking at John Greengrass; he's got a scar on his forearm, and I'm like, "Is that a bowling injury?" And he goes "It is, kind of."

I'm like, "Wait a second, what do you mean it's a bowling injury?" He's starts telling this story. He was coming back from the last World Police and Firemen Games, which happen every two years. Two years ago it was in Indianapolis; this year it was in Barcelona. He's coming back; he's at Heathrow Airport with his partner, they're leaving the airport in a car, going back home, and they get caught in a car chase.

Somebody has a stolen car, and there's a cop chasing. He's telling his partner, "We gotta do something!" His partner's like, "Do something? We're not armed, we're not in our uniforms, what are we gonna do?" Suddenly there's a spin-out and the stolen car is coming right at him. So he jumps out of the car and all he had is two bowling balls in the backseat. He gets out like Rocky, right?, and lifts the balls over his head, throws them at the windshield, stopping the car, which skids and takes his forearm with it. Out of the car gets a thirteen-year-old boy.

So my obvious question was, "Did you show him the what-for after that? Did you give him the old one-two?" And he goes, "No no no; wouldn't want to admit to that. The kid was only thirteen." I go, "If he was thirteen and was being disobedient, then I would give him a goddamn spanking, that's for sure." He goes, "Well, it's best to leave the punishment in the hands of the law enforcement officers, I guess, in this case." I loved it.

So I write this up for the LA Weekly. I had told them I was going to cover this event and they're like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah!" They reject it, because I put in there how at the age of fourteen I was already writing my own version of "Fuck the Police" and it had nothing to do with the song‹

V: By N.W.A.

LL: Exactly. They rejected the piece but had to pay me a kill fee. But I went and did this documentary.

V: But how did his arm get injured? LL: He threw the bowling ball at the car and the car skids out of control but kinda grazes him, so he's got this amazing scar. Which I photographed, of course. The bowlers turned out to be the wildest. They were British bobbies, drunk, having a good time. I had a grand time; I just loved it.

V: See, life is not so facilely eclipsed into these little categories. Like, if you're "counterculture," you automatically despise cops‹

LL: No. Because I stalk the police‹I stalk them with my camera all the time‹I've got dozens of photos of all kinds of cops. They always let me take their picture; always. Because they have no clue.

MW: They probably don't have many people ask them.

V: Most people don't have the guts to ask 'em.

LL: Some of them are pretty hot! One time I was coming out of Kennedy Airport to have a cigarette, and there's a big fat cop ass loaded down with all the gear‹the cop's bending down to talk to the driver of a cop car. I come out and say, "Assume the position!" The driver starts laughing. I'm like, "Excuse me, officer, can you just stay where you are? I need a photo of this." And he's like shaking his head, and the driver cop is saying, "Let her take it, let her take it!" There it is, wide as the Mississippi, loaded with equipment.

V: The cop belt is very heavy; it actually weighs twenty or twenty-five pounds. I know a guy who's a cop. He used to be the doorman at the Mabuhay, DNA‹a bunch of clubs‹and one day he just decided to become a cop. He went to the police academy for nine months or whatever, and passed the exams. And he refuses to get a promotion; he wants to be a beat cop, on the street.

LL: Because he wants to help people. Every cop I have ever asked has said this. What's weird is, the media are never going to talk about any good deeds done by anybody, because that's not what the news is about; the news is about disaster. Not just in a story only about police, but everything. The slant is on that.

So for every person beaten by police‹well, we'll see the tapes; they show it and they have 'em. They will not tell you about the life risk, the high divorce rate, the alcoholism, the suicide rate (which is four times higher than the average), etc. They feel the stress of the job; they are outnumbered, overworked, underpaid, and then they have to deal with the reputation of a few rogue assholes, which are in every fucking profession. So I have a very dualistic position on cops‹

V: Whereas CEOs are one hundred percent rogue assholes. Well, most of 'em.

LL: I have a very dualistic love/hate affair with the police. But I have many of their cards, so every state I'm in, I can get out of jail free!

Stay tuned for more information on Pranks! 2.